Hand to Hand Combat with a Gorilla Won't Work

Tony Grout

Recorded at GOTO 2016

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here we are a hand-to-hand combat with a
gorilla so so my experience these days
is doing has been over the last sort of
10 years doing well item what now we
call agile at scale it's really
well-known now everybody's you know all
the large corporates are trying it is
anybody here let's do a quick sharp
hands who here works for a company with
more than 200 people Oh quite a few most
300 Wow still 500 Wow okay let's go for
it a thousand oh my okay big right okay
so you're in my world okay we're
together I used to turn about agile
conferences it was really funny i turn
it I stopped going I kept turning up add
your conferences and I'd go so I'm
trying to scale agile over when I was in
IBM labs 23,000 people ugh was about 25
I owned it for half a million but you
can't even think about half a million
the whole of that my IBM was trying to
gradual and for two years I was the
agile leader for IBM across half a
million people and the book came out of
it and i worked with scott ambler on the
disciplined agile divot delivery model
and mark lines but I took I I you know
you terrible conferences and they go
you're just stupid I chose not not you
don't deserve our job so I stopped going
and and so I could I played with other
things so what I'm going to talk to you
about today is the things I've been
learning while the agile guys have been
catching up ok so the first thing the
first thing is we all love agile right
developers i come from i'm i am a
technical person at heart I can't help
myself at home I've suddenly started to
work on you know lambda functions I turn
up at the office they're going so how
good a transform the bank i'm sitting
there thinking I wonder if that lambda
function will actually work in that way
thinking well you know I've got to keep
I've got to keep myself interested
because when you're trying to move
23,000 people in a direction you know
hand-to-hand combat knife and forking it
through that is not a easy task so the
first thing is we all live agile right
you all know its
easy to know it's easy to understand
when you're in the trenches trying to
get stuff done executives of agile
whatever flavor they've chosen the
reason they love our eyes because
they've all been to a cio conference in
fact my group cio went to one a few
weeks ago and they come back and they're
like this agile thing will transform
everything you're like yep it will we
just we should have some okay and of
course they want it because their
friends have got it it's like you turn
up you've got they got a new car you
want a new car so everybody all the
executives desperately want their agile
don't even no idea what it is nobody
care what it is but apparently we have
to have one it's like a mobile app
everybody has to have one but know what
we're gonna do with it yet but we should
have want to make sure it's got five
stars the problem is it may not have
five stars in an agile world the first
thing that the executives haven't quite
really wrapped their head around yet is
you have to fail to succeed you have to
have things that go down in order to
learn how to make things go up hmm so
you can end up with the cone of shame
okay who here has worn the cone of shame
you walk in and you go yeah sorry boss
the system didn't quite work as expected
so the problem is with manages the
senior guys in the middle is this is
where I'm going to ask you to I'm going
to work with you to help them to help
you does that make sense work with them
to help you to help them to help you
so the only way were you're going to
make this happen is you're going to be
where I am right you can't get the wheel
of the ship and start steering it they
don't let us at it because we're a bit
mad so how do you influence the manager
who is so worried about failing in a
world where their executives have been
told how to do agile in a world where
you guys are desperate to do a July eggs
and fail fast where they have no job
she's Chris Chris mats where who would
the new dan mentioned earlier and I are
working when we worked at skype when
Vince of skype all the managers had no
idea what their job was anymore and we
looked for weeks for box to give to
managers about what their job was that
had agile front covers on and now a nom
it was sad if you go to the bookstore
and Amazon there's one called scrum for
managers or something uh-huh I think
even then it doesn't talk about them it
simply says how to interpret scrum for a
manager so who's gonna vote for that so
you're asking all of your people and I
go in every day going agile is awesome
and you'll have no job how does that
work that's not gonna work right that's
not great and the problem is yes I did
draw these myself apologies right I
didn't have much time to look for
clipart ah the problem is that human
beings are frightened of everything
anything no right back to the caveman
days we have this thing in our brains
called an amygdala the fear thing the
food thing that sends all of the fear
through our bodies when we see anything
new and it was there to save us from
saber-toothed Tigers
but the problem is agile is now our
saber-toothed tiger and the interesting
thing is did you know the human being
the fastest human being on the planet
Usain Bolt cannot outrun a rabbit it's
true the fastest speed of a recorded
rabbit VS Usain Bolt the rabbit is
faster so we are sure we should be
afraid of everything in caveman days the
problem is now the world is different
but if you're a manager one of these big
gorillas in the room who's learned how
to win in the new were in the old world
the saber-tooth Tiger rabbit of agile is
pretty scary so this when you walk in
and you go I'm gonna do agile let's do a
July go no I don't think so they'll
either fight you stick their fingers in
their ears and hope if they hold go away
and keep me out of all their meetings
you never turn up and can't talk about
this crazy agile stuff or don't tell
them you're doing it so they just go
away or some of them might even decide
that they're just going to run away and
go and do something else landscape
garden the thing is if we don't bring
them with us if we don't show those guys
out of win and you don't know show those
guys how to win what they'll do and what
they'll encourage you to do is process
theater how many organizations Dan
talked about it earlier it was a great
it was a great talk about water scrum
fall process theatre I come from a world
now where my organization that I'm
working out today have thousands of
pages of documented process thousands I
mean we have army of people writing
process about how you ship software that
makes hardly any difference
my favorite comment recently I own the
process now at lloyds i now am the king
of waterfall as well as agile which is a
bit weird but one of the things i'd
recently somebody came up to me and said
Tony I don't manager commence a Tony we
have a problem with non-functioning we
test issue some sequel server went in
live and it actually burned every it
burned a cpu to the ground like the
worst cpus smoking in the data center
that should never happen again so we
want you to write in the process that
they should do non functional testing i
might really it kinda says in you know
the people not just have to bring their
brain and used and do that no no and I
said well actually you don't know it
says in the process do you not in
functional testing and they said yes we
want you to write in the process they
should read the process process theatre
so if we allow protest theater to happen
and you guys allowed to happen
everybody's sad the customers sad you're
sad because don't get to have fun with
angular dangler 38 whatever flavor we
have today or the next programming
language called stop or something no I
always remember Grady boots and I work
with gradient IBM saying the last thing
and the last thing the industry needs is
another programming language and here we
are so you can't win from where you are
you don't have the steering wheel so how
do we use the system to change the
system how do we where we are in the
organization influence those managers to
do better to take that trip towards
those scary places I'm going to give you
some some ideas that I've worked I've
worked for me and I'm going to talked
about some of the things I haven't
worked so well so you need some
organizational jujitsu you need to use
the scale of the organization and the
things the organization values to help
because you can't go in there and shake
the organization to the ground and
change it certainly at the scale I'm at
with a big brand dan mentioned a brand
thing about coca-cola how many of you
and your organization's have brands that
are so precious your organization won't
let you massively experiment without
showing them that you've been safe up
doing it first I'm going to let you so
you have to teach them out of wind
you've got to teach the managers out of
win how do they win so that we win and
the customer wins so we get to play we
get the best product and we get make the
home we show how the company can make
money so let's talk about user system to
change the system the first thing is you
cannot change any system until you
observe the system right now the way
thing is who said the phrase go to the
gemba ok some of you go to the gambler
is one of the things where they say it's
basically comes the Japanese TPS the
Toyota Production system it's all about
going to where the work is done now the
irony of it is it's normally used for
managers to go and look at how people on
the production line works let's use the
system to change the system instead of
the manager going to look at how we work
why don't we go and look at how their
manager works most of us have no idea of
the pressures that managers are under
they're not bad people but they have
they are told to do bad things sometimes
right none of them wake up doing today
I'm gonna do a really terrible thing to
developers I'm going to go and pull the
legs off a few because I feel a bit
annoyed right I'm going to make them
write some COBOL I'll teach those
developers I know they don't do that
what they have is they have different
things going on and the problem is they
also operate with inside the system a
system that some of them aren't even
Ralph so one of the things you can help
is you can start to help them look at
you can look at their system and help
them understand the system they are
working in as a great term is a great
story I have no idea by the way I've
tried to look at the precedence of the
the study that was done but I'm going to
tell you the storage things a good story
so as parenting as a study done and that
they basically i took a buck a monkey
and they put a monkey in a cage and in
that cage they put a ladder I'll at the
close the cage leave the monkey what
does the monkey do it goes for the
banana because he's a monkey right
you're getting there right you are going
to wake up I promise right so the monkey
ko Sai banana as he goes to the banana
they squirt a monkey with cold water
monkeys like what the hell was that on a
monkey I go for bananas and they squirt
me this is so not fair so the monkey
just sits there again sits there gose
with an aren't I squirt the monkey game
monkey just sits there thinking oh okay
clearly I'm not going to go for the
banana so what do they do then they get
another monkey and I put the next monk
in a cage in the same cage with the
first monkey what does the second monkey
do goes for the banana coastal banana
coins that oh god they square both the
monkeys the first monkeys sitting there
thinking I didn't even go for the banana
what second first monkeys thinking what
the hell I'm a monkey I go for bananas
so they both just sit there and then the
first the first monk the second monkey
goes all I'm gonna give it another go
that can't be right as the first as a
second monkey goes for the banana what
do you think the first monkey does he
wrestles the
firstman keep the second bunch of the
ground started beating over don't go for
the bedolla the service book the second
once again what I don't understand only
for another monkey aim and another and
they can't follow this experiment and
then they take the third they take start
taking monkeys out as they put more
monkeys in as the first as a third
monkey went in the third one key went to
go for the blonde before the third
monkey even got to the banana the first
two other monkeys were beating them no
don't for the banana the third bunk he
didn't even get wet nobody got wet and
then I start taking the monkey the two
first two monkeys get taken out and all
they're left with is monkeys that I've
never got wet and nobody will go for the
banana and nobody knows why that is your
organizational culture that is what
these guys can't say it's like you need
to do go and make the great things
happen nobody goes uh no I don't think
that's what we do here and that's what
see that's what middle managers have
been trained to do they don't even know
they're doing it some of them they've
got 16,000 kpi's they're trying to
balance go and look going don't I say
study the system go and ask them what
they're trying to balance I sit one of
my jobs now heaven forbid is I sit
through management meetings regularly
trust me I go to my happy place most
days right because all they talk about
is we need to increase this number we've
got a red here we've got a blue flashing
thing there you guys sit there
beautifully oblivious with right so go
and see them don't like you what they
understand their system help them
sprayed with water and I'll talk a bit
about how you can do that oh by the way
sending them an email saying it will be
fine doesn't help right because they've
just spent
years being conditioned by their bosses
that they'll get beaten up if they go
for the banana an email won't fix it
okay so if you have to work out what are
the bananas in your organization so when
I worked in Microsoft and skype there's
a great lady we work with they're called
Lisa long who now is working in Norway
actually for telenor and she's also the
COA for a company called 6 to start and
what Lisa was what Lisa always talked
about is find the currency of the
organization the things that people
trade and value for managers help them
work that out what's the currency that
your managers are having to do so you
so an example is in Microsoft it was all
about how many features could you put in
a product so one of the things you help
Microsoft you're working with Microsoft
teams all the things you want them to do
is have the ability to put as many
features as possible in the product now
you know shot Cara their products have
lots of features in because that's what
they've measure that's what they reward
that's what you get interestingly enough
so Microsoft let's build a feature get a
cookie guilt build a fee to get a banana
even your performance review is geared
around how many features you can get
into a product as a manager and as an
engineer in IBM it's all about when I
worked in IBM it was all about metrics
and measures and how many dollars of
revenue did you generate per person in
the organization so what do you think I
focus there I focused on making sure
that the managers could see how agile
help them with Microsoft how many
features could I build come back to that
in a minute maybe not the right thing
I'll come back to why we do that
enlighten my IBM I worked out how to
look at how they could generate the most
revenue for the least number of people
you need to be thinking about that when
economic term Don reinertsen one of my
heroes talks about you need a common
framework before you can have a
conversation about this kind of product
flow thinking find the currency find the
things your managers care about help
them get more of it that's using the
system to change the system you're
trying to change the currency today just
they've got because then they can win
now a winning manager is a friendly
gorilla right they're big they're scary
they're powerful but on your side
because you've given them bananas and
they didn't get wet okay and you can do
that because the theft you do the
intellectual property that we do as
engineers are the things that can
generate value for them I love this
quote right as I always makes me laugh i
meani a software engineer I always laugh
about the fact we need to do agile agile
is the way forward the organization
needs to change to take on board these
new concepts then you go into an
engineering organization and go right
we're going to do something different
anybody goes ah so managers are no
different and no so managers are looking
at each other when you sit in a room
full of managers if you've ever SAT
there it's quite an interesting thing I
mean I that if you need to be I love the
fact now I'm so curious these days I
used to write a lot more code now I like
to play with carbon so I now like to
play with carbon so human beings are far
more fun it's a Christmas Christmas
quote when you watch managers work
they're all looking for what their peers
are doing who's going to make the first
step who's get who's winning in the game
who's losing in the game so you need to
start thinking about the work that
something like Kate gray who I work with
at the moment so que traes works in
politicians comes from the political
campaigning arena and so when she talks
about transformation at scale
she's an amazing lady who talks about
the fact that you have to think about
it's a political campaign so in your
thinking about the people you should be
working with to bring them on a journey
the managers who are going to come along
with you those big gorillas you need to
start thinking about them in terms of
the hell where they fit on your spectrum
of political campaigning now what's
interesting here is I spent too much of
my early career too much too much time
after I'd gone into it after after the
acquisition of my second business in IBM
where I came from an organization where
were 150 people building medical systems
and weird crazy first-of-a-kind stuff
using agile going into IBM going we just
have to do this amazing stuff and it was
like who's this Nutter wandering around
so what I was I had to do is I spent all
my time going round to the people who
definitely didn't want to do it going no
I was doing the English tourist thing
like we do in England where you go to a
foreign country and because we can't
speak Danish we just shout at you ah and
eventually we just hope that by shouting
you get it so I spent a long time and
you'll spend a long time trying to
convince the people you really really
don't want to do it to try and do it can
I just say and save you five years of
your life that is not a good plan ok I
have that is the best value you will get
out of today that I've just saved you
five years of your life that is value
add right I've done that I have the gray
hairs to prove that it's not a good plan
so soft opposition nope not a good plan
either you know what you will never win
that conversation anybody here is any is
done anything to do with political
campaigning you turn up and you never
win an argument with somebody used on
the opposition ever
undecided with you so do you spend your
time with you undecided yeah no I tried
that that didn't work either why because
I turn up and they're going well we're
not really sure about this is the
managers are going what wow you know
what I like the idea but at the moment
I'm doing pretty well right now you know
people places where these people are
general managers and a large corporation
like the ones you work in they are not
badly paid by the way and waterfall for
them works just fine and what you're
saying is bring in this new stuff and as
Daniel Kahneman the behave the guy won a
Nobel Prize for behavioral economics
said when you walk in with this brand
new way of working and go it'll be just
fine they go so I'm winning at the
moment and what you're saying is change
where I could either win or lose stay as
we are and win change and I get the
opportunity you're telling me to win or
lose I think I'll just stay what I'm
doing thanks i might look at my bank
account and it's fine i'm looking at my
share options and they're fine we're
good so where you would swear i tend to
work where I working with Kate gray cake
raised insightful information and I I'm
very disappointed that she didn't find
me sooner that wasn't / that was me not
being personally accountable by the way
and it's kate's viewers you work with
the soft support so when you go and
speak to the managers find people who
are just over the edge and the reason
you do that is because those people if
have relationships with the undecided
you have to think of these people by the
way I always laugh about it no
developers always go but we are people
we are not resources and when you look
at the managers we go they are managers
know I only there right those evil
managers we just line them up so soft
supporters there people right go and
work with them don't go and talk to them
now the interesting thing about those
people is they talk the language of
gorillas so they can actually be the
Babel Fish between you going iterative
fast feedback loop and now go how do I
translate that into gorilla when I'm
talking to John hmm this is what
gorillas talk about fast feedback loops
John so they go and work with you and
decided they bring it with you trust me
when i wake up at the boarding do you
really think i'll get out of the
opportunity to touch personally 23,000
people you have got to be kidding what I
do is I go and work with the soft
support to drive them to talk to the
undecided to bring the undecided along
now the undecided can then bring the
soft opposition along because what do I
then do I teach the undecided we get the
undecided so they are winning we teach
them how to win in the new game now
there how do you use a system to change
the system then well if you have a
system where managers compete with
managers I don't do have that happen by
the way managers are quite competitive
right so then you go wow this manager
here who was under song ideas suddenly
standing up in front of the organization
going and our projects were far more
successful every other managers first
first of all they're going we hate you
and secondly they're going I want some
of that that is using the system to
change the system right now it's not
pretty the world I live in is a dirty
world I remember in the UK there's
there's two there was Tony Blair
and before that he was the Labor Prime
Minister in the UK and then before that
there was John Major and they
interviewed and Tony Blair was in power
and they were there was an interview on
the radio saying to John Major a
previous conservative opposition Prime
Minister well what do you think about
Tony Blair and all these you know
horrific hands he's shaking and the
deals he's doing and John Major all
credit to the man say said only when you
get in power do you how do you realize
the things you have to do to make bigger
better things happen so now some of the
things i will describe today are not
pretty some of them you may thinkers
well this is not pure well good luck
with pure let me know how that works out
for you to be an interesting experiment
I've tried it I've not found a way
through but I'm great too I'm always
open for feedback you're going to have
to talk you're gonna have to teach
people how to talk agile spend some time
with those guys so the other things
think about then is you think about
people this is from the world of
internal communications my wife's world
of communications I love this and you're
already positioning people in your
organization aren't you I can see it's
it got I he's definitely unguided
missile don't even know what they are
yet but I'm sure you know some so when
you think about when you're working with
that soft support then you still have to
think about or this is then you start
saying okay so you have your hot shots
you don't you don't spend any time with
them you know what all you need to do to
those managers is go over and go I think
you're awesome can I work for you just
make them feel great how do I come and
work for you you know you're awesome you
just get it so the hotshots are going
out there and they are the people who
will help you sell this and make sure
that you give them all the support you
can the saboteurs are the ones you sit
there down there are quite very tricky
they're the ones who turn up at all the
meetings and go and then when they get
in the management meetings they go all
that stuff never going to work really
we're going to experiment are you
kidding me there's no way i'm
experimenting I'm that's stupid right
there sad they'll sabotage underneath
the slow-burn is the guys you sit back
and watch everybody else my favorites
are the unguided missiles now they think
the trick with the only guided missiles
is you have a plan you want to be agile
you're going to take in the agile
mindset you got to do that you know the
voodoo thing and you walk in and they're
like ah yes I'm really into this agile
stuff you know it's awesome i'm so up
for it agile is awesome and you think
yes they understand my baby as soon as
you walk out the room they're going this
is going to make me look a rock star i'm
going to use all the process theatre i
can to make myself look awesome and i'm
going to make my baby look great so
suddenly you think they're working with
your baby but really they're finding a
way of getting their baby in they've got
an even better idea than you have that
you've given them your baby and now
they're going to make their thing happen
so managers are managers trust me that
you don't get to be a manager my unless
you're pretty smart right or you've been
promoted not to be you decide where your
managers are so for those who are really
good I was always given one piece of
advice by my mentor in IBM my mentor and
IBM was a senior executive said to me
Tony the two ways you get forward in IBM
having joined well done you're on the
leadership track bottle by executive
really where you're going to make it to
the top is either a
work your work yourself to death
delivering real value a be be so
politically awesome that you don't have
to do any work but you have so many
connections in the organization that
think you do work that you can make it
my suggestion is it's somewhere in
between but you have to decide so mere
unguided missiles are probably at one
end of that spectrum leave it with you
but just be thoughtful about when you're
bringing that that group across make
sure you pick the mate make sure you
understand where those people are in
that cycle and make sure you're focusing
my main world is I spend it with the
slow burners the hot shots and just keep
on watching I over the unguided missiles
and just make sure that as Kate often
reminds me Kate gray reminds me so long
as they're going in the same direction
IE north if you want to go north it they
might be going north northeast on nor
east northeast with their own message
long as they're going in generally the
same direction just let it ride ma'am
23,000 people you're really not gonna
fix all that that is you know that keeps
me sane every morning you need to do the
same so final point is you need to help
your managers in whatever where you can
to succeed so one of the things you
might want to you need to become trusted
because the only way you have any form
of influence is through trust building
trust because what does trust over
what's the I love it when what does
trust overcome well one of the things
that most organizations have that I've
mentioned a number of times today and
large organizations have it baked in and
a lot of them is fear
everybody says well how do we how do we
you know we need a culture that gets rid
of fear you go you can't have a culture
that gets rid of fear that's like Oh
what you can do is create trust so you
in order to be able to make the change
from where you are to take on that
gorilla you need that gorilla to trust
you so one of the things that general
McCulloch general McChrystal talks about
in the book team of teams it's one of my
favorite stories in the book it's got
quite a few good things in but that's
one of my favorites is he talks about in
the Navy SEALs the Navy SEALs the crack
military unit of the US and they do I
mean those guys are completely bonkers I
weapons not sure and but one of the
things they are but one of the things
that general McChrystal did is he sent a
Navy SEAL to each of the US embassies
around the world where there was conf
where there was potential conflict why
did he do that
it wasn't to protect because right there
and then they did they have no initial
impending danger there was nobody firing
weapons and interestingly enough what
that Navy SEAL did was typically wand
around made the coffee when he was a
serious coffee maker I mean you know you
could have you could have a big cup of
coffee right he emptied the bins yeah
thinking hold on like the cost of
training and navy seal it must run into
the hundreds of millions of dollars
right 42 trained Navy SEALs and now is a
garbage guy really why is he collecting
the YZ empty in the bins well it's
because the Ambassador wanders around
the offices sees this big guy just
making himself useful waiting for
something to happen so guess what the
guy starts to realize he's a team player
he's not just standing there you know I
am seal with weapon waiting for action
he's doing useful things while he waits
to help the embassy succeed not his job
he's just helping a Navy SEAL emptying
bins so what do you think happens when a
conflict starts to occur when there's a
sign there's a significant conflict
about to happen and the navy seal walks
into the ambassador's office and goes I
think we need to move
but first of all the navy seal has not
signaled anything before that says you
know let's be afraid of everything
they're not the caveman running from the
saber-toothed tiger then they walk in
they walk in and go sir we need to move
the Ambassador looks at that guy and
goes he's been helpful and he's been
waiting for this moment and this is the
moment I am going to move I trust this
guy to have made a right decision he's
been helping your job is to be that Navy
SEAL for your manager if you want this
to happen when you walk in and say it's
now if you haven't got that tryst with
your manager they're just going to go oh
you're the guy who does what you're the
person I've no idea even who you are are
you helpful no okay i'll just go back to
my spreadsheet and think magic happens
so one of the things you can do them
what can you actually go and do you know
one of the things I've done one of mice
believe it's so simple right one of the
things I love about agile and it's so
like ridiculously simple is have a
frickin list any videos really I have a
list really that's the odds yes because
what does a list have that's unique to
most ways managers and executives try
and run their days normally it has an
order with one thing at the top if you
and go that's why I say go and study how
your manager works literally they have
like 455 virtual post-it notes just
splattered across their desk that
they're worrying about right all of them
right there and then equally important
so what we did it what I've done with my
executive team in the bank right now and
we did it Skye put in Microsoft is we
just went guys guys excuse me this is
all a bit mental nobody's everybody's
not really very focused yes we're all
going in a direction but it's all a bit
random so maybe we have a list that's
all do the most important things
you guys are trying to do on the list
and we'll do the things at the top
before we do the things at the bottom
how about that for a try and they went
actually is radical an ordered list
really let's give it a try so that's
what we did at skype it was a bit more
behind it we increase the productivity
and throughput of skylight delivering
value by 10 times because when you're at
scale nobody has a clue what
anybody else he's working on just put up
a list of what everybody's working on
and with a priority so that people can
self-organize the radical right I'm just
saying most world most of large
organizations I remember the
conversation I had in my organization
today where I said to the guys who
you're using we use this tool called
clarity project management tool and I
said to the guys they said Tony what do
you think would be the best thing we
could do with clarity I went for number
two which was and give everybody access
to see the plans and it was like the
phone went quiet hello hello clarity
team and they went sorry I think we
didn't understand well let everybody see
the plan the plans why on earth would
anybody want to see the plans anyway use
a list right I know the things that we
think are really really simple and
trivial that we just take for granted
managers just don't use in the bank now
we have a list so all these thing your
leaders the CIO group CIO who's my boss
at the bank now runs the equivalent of a
cadenced ordered backlog to manage
23,000 people does he care whether it's
agile well there
he does did he at the time when we first
started doing it no did it help yes does
that learn me the rights have a
conversation about other things with him
yes I didn't go in there talking about
agile I just went what's the biggest
worry you've got on your desk today and
i just used agile you know you can look
at a system you guys are systems
thinkers right really question how many
times you zoom back from your I'm going
to write this function and it's going to
be awesome help your manager right look
at a system here's Bob Raj and Eric and
you know Bob passes off the work to Raj
and ride passes off the works Eric and
they're just operations people in your
managers Ops teams and he's going one
day you hear him go guys it's just a
nightmare I'll have to hire another
admin person to handle all the work and
you're going there and you see this and
you go oh looks like a queue hey boss
how about we how about IQ no I'll give
you a help and we you know we look at
where the bottlenecks are what's a
bottleneck let's have a chat let me know
you know I've been taking a look and
talking to the guys and we think Rogers
got a bit of a problem so let's sue put
Rogers equipment let's give them a
faster pc or something help earn the
right earnest to bring in the agile
stuff don't just walk in there with your
next crazy lambda function ago woohoo
I've saved the bank when this guy when
the guys going who the hell are you
really you on your own even if you have
they won't listen to help them manage
the risk this is one of my favorite
things I've done for many years now and
when I think about the wrist you when
you think about managing risks in
software most because I come from I come
from military medical systems risk is at
the top of my mind all the time
operational risk delivery risk all sorts
of risk so I simply go
I just want a simple grid right and I
said I say so my managers I'm going all
I'm going to do is and if you don't want
to use stories you could just use
requirement and then you can write all
the list of think your risks your
worries down the left all of the
requirements if you built them and
tested them that would show you no
longer had that risk and then order your
list your work list by building the
things that we're going to take the most
risk out soonest so here I build story
three first now the agile world a lot of
people still go no we're going to
deliver business value first now that
can be fine too but you need to make
sure you have that trade-off having this
list to show your manager that you are
actively thinking about deal it not
delivering more problems for them as a
good friend of mine at the bank calls it
a guy called stand reeve the lies are
you want to give your manager back is a
box of bees okay I'm not managing the
risk and showing by much showing you're
managing risk aggressively like this to
show we actually list our risk and we're
going to show which stories we're going
to build to get rid of which risks
that's a plus right show your manager
you've built that trust use the agile
mirror show them that every so often
reflecting that's one of the beautiful
things about agile right we retrospect
continuously but start the process get
them to see the value of reflecting and
so use the system to change the system
study your managers find out what they
care about find out how to what makes
them tick find out what the currency is
that you can help them get more odd to
earn the right to bring in agile
practices to empty the bins for them so
that when you turn up and want to do
bigger things they trust you and with
that thank you very much like one
question is there one question excellent
there's a hand at the front let me just
come running down with Mike hi thank you
for your presentation of very
entertaining and I'm just wondering how
does the journey start because you make
manager sound like they are totally
unaware of that you are change agent
brought on you didn't just show up show
someone decided that it yeah yeah so
what I've done is basically is it not
aligned is it not seen are you a solo
change agent so typically I get hired in
so at skype I got hired in by the
private equity firm so again executives
I don't get hired in by engineers so
what I so I get hide in by the guys who
read the organisation won't read the
magazine on the in-flight magazine and
go I want that then they look around and
find people many people who are doing it
and so then they look at I mean like
number of LinkedIn connections I get
because nobody really knows how to get
this to scale that's what I do for a
living they get me in at the executive
level but what most of time I don't they
don't know what they're asking for so
when i joined the bank the number of
times I I mean I remember my first
conversation with a bank where I
actually sat down and went if you knew
how really hard this was going to be you
and I would not be having this
you would never hire me and they and
they said no no it doesn't i round I'm
like I don't know the more the more sort
of you really want me I think it's on
like The Nanny McPhee the more you want
me the more you don't need me because
you actually really don't understand how
hard this is going to be and finally
they said no no come and join and enough
people in there what I did is I met all
of the Executive Board of the IT
organization and I made the decision at
that point I thought I could do
something interesting there because
there was enough buying from those to
support the fact that we're going to
have to make that move fantastic okay
thanks very much Tony that was awesome